NRAS Logo
Logged in as: pedro-pmc Search | Moderate | Active Topics | My Profile | Members | Logout

New Topic Post Reply
A personal Rant Options
RCampbell
#1 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:27:41 AM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 43
Location: Burgess Hill, West Sussex
Hi friends,

I was appalled by the execution in China of a Briton in China. Despite his Mental Health issues which were ignored, he was convicted and executed for smuggling heroin. Now, I am against all Capital Punishment but respect it in those countries where they retain it as a deterrent.

I am also appalled by our Government consistently refusing to intervene in the case of Gary McKinnon who has Learning Difficulties and Mental Health problems. Gary did wrong by hacking into the computers to search for UFO information but this is a crime the Americans can lock him away for a very long time.

Why am I ranting? I rant against our Government which is so two-faced. They have criticised the Chinese Authorities but seem willing to appease the US authorities. Such a two-faced response sullies all Britons. I have personally emailed the Prime Minister on this as I am angry at the continuing double-standards this sleazy Government.

If you fell as I do, please take a minute to write to the PM at:
https://email.number10.gov.uk/MessageConfirm.aspx


.
Bob

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
jeanb
#2 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:53:50 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 3,006
Location: Timperley
Whilst I am against capital punishment, I have two "heads" on on this one.

The heroin the executed man smuggled could have lead to 27,000 deaths and he must have known that the only outcome in China for drug smuggling is death. If he was in such a grave mental state, as his relatives made out, why was he allowed to travel alone?

I am not making moral judgement here - simply saying that smuggling of any illegal drug should carry a very very stiff punishment. I feel it's a pity our government are so soft on drug pushers and peddlars.

I agree toally about the British government.
RCampbell
#3 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:06:37 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 43
Location: Burgess Hill, West Sussex
I totally agree with your sentiments on this. I too raised the question of family responsibility. I think what sticks in my throat is the Government's two-faced approach to the case of McKinnon whilst postulating against the Chinese decision.
Bob

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
barbara-o
#4 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:06:25 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 690
Hi Bob,

Rant all you like Bob, you've got my full support on this one. From working in mental health for many years and having had experience of working with diverse communities here in London, I can understand how Akmal Shaikh got himself into such a tragic situation that sadly resulted in him being executed.

Firstly, in China mental illness is poorly understood with a culture that has little or no understanding and a great intolerance to those who do not tow the line, or who behave or act differently. This man was also deprived of a full mental state examination, and without treatment possibly lacked mental capacity during his entire imprisonment.

Secondly, he was not of British origin and there is the issue of his skin colour. My has daughter travelled extensively throughout China with her Chinese friend and was horrified by what she saw and by the racist attitudes of the Chinese people she encountered, stating the educated were the worst.

Thirdly, although he was a British citizen he came from an Asian community where mental illness has a different cultural meaning and with treatments often being spiritual and when these do not work, families often find themselves helpless or not knowing how to seek help until crisis point when their mentally ill relative ends up coming to the attention of the police or other emergency services. There is also the stigma attached to mental illness within this community to consider, also he was an older adult single male who was possibly considered as unproductive to the family, or possessed by a Jinn (evil spirit).

Fourthly, he was suspected of suffering from manic depression/bipolar affective disorder and from what I have read from his case history he definitely appeared to have exhibited many of the classical symptoms, such as delusions of grandeur, believing you're omnipotent and can achieve anything. Who goes to China to make a record as an older Asian male? During manic phases people with this illness become incredibly vulnerable and open to all sorts of abuse and exploitation.

What is happening to Gary McKinnon just goes to show how spineless our current government is. You are right Bob, I think Briton has got it's head stuck up both America's and the Chinese's Ar.. America is a super power on it's way out, and the Chinese are on it's way up!

Love,


Barbara
XXXXXX


FIONA752
#5 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:20:25 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 312
Dear Bob, I felt sickened by this case too.
I had this mental image of a man who did not undrerstand that he was
about to be executed. (I think his daughter said this on the radio.)
What a sad world we live in.
FionaThumbDown
volfram
#6 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:53:51 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/5/2009
Posts: 119
Location: warrington
Dear Bob
I feel really touched by what has happened to this man. my neice has just been sectioned again she too suffers with bi-polar and in the manic stages that have happened to her she is so different to the sweet girl we know. she argues & fights with her mum & dad she has so many things happening in her head where she truly believes she can do things, her whole character changes she goes into pubs and asks complete strangers to buy her drinks and takes risks that you would not believe if you knew her she is the sweetest most caring person but when this dreadful illness hits her it completly changes her. Her mum & Dad have been pushed to breaking point. I really feel for them there christmas as been spent worrying about her wondering if she is safe. She is now 30 years old so not possible to make her stay home. this is the second time they have had to get her sectioned to get the help she despretly needs. the first time was really really horrible as she didn't understand what was happening to her. this time not nice but she did agree she needed the help.
sue v
RCampbell
#7 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 12:27:50 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 43
Location: Burgess Hill, West Sussex
Barbara,

Thank you for such a comprehensive reply which has helped me to better understand Bi-Polar in people and the effecs it can have on normally rational people.

Sue thank you for sharing your story - I do feel saddened at your niece has this dreadful condition and feel sorry that her parents are put under such pressure which is only relieved by sectioning your niece.

When I worked trying to retain people in employment, I had the opportunity to deal with a gent with BiPolar and a working single mum with the same condition. Meeting them regularly, I was always thrown by the sudden changes in their demeanour and attitude towards me. The man often saw me as an enemy and he was often very belligerent (almost to the point of violence) and other times he was the safest, most knowledgeable and helpful individual. The working mum was equally hard to work with as she moved from being manic to being depressed. Hard work and few people understand this.
Bob

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
jeanb
#8 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 12:52:31 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 3,006
Location: Timperley
Perhaps somone can help me out here.

As I said previously, I am totally against the death penalty under any circumstances. However, what if this man had managed to smuggle this heroin into the country and thousands of people had become addicted or even died because of his actions? Would that be OK?

Love Jeanxx
dorat
#9 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 1:13:29 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 3,157
Location: Huddersfield
I agree with you Jean.
He smuggled heroin into their country and we should respect the laws of that country.

Doreen xx
wood
#10 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 1:28:24 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 74
Hi, I agree that we have to respect the laws of other countries, Malcolm and I were talking about it and China is not exactly a place for a holiday, so why did he go in the first place? They have a deplorable record on human rights, I feel really sorry for his family though, no amount of pleading would have given him clemency, they already knew they were going to execute him and weren't going to change their minds love Kimxx
hen
#11 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 2:48:23 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/7/2009
Posts: 262
Whilst I agree that a country's laws should be respected I would question whether someone with a serious mental illness should be held totally responsible for his actions.
Obviously this is a very emotive subject as both bipolar disorder and drug addiction can be devestating for the person concerned and their families.

Diane x
volfram
#12 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 4:06:19 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/5/2009
Posts: 119
Location: warrington
Hi jean
yes i agree that carrying the drugs was totally wrong. but to not take into account his mental health I find hard but that i think is because of the situation with my niece. Before she was first sectioned She had it in her head that she could go to America and be a football coach now this sounds and could of been quite plausible she was a very good football player gave quite a few of the boys a run for there money. if she had had the money to get on a flight she would of gone. the frightening thing was She was In the manic stage of this illness and would do and take risks, her judgement had completely left her. We as a family are finding it very hard as after the manic highs come the crashing lows where she will completly withdraw into herself and sleep for hours on end, and finds it very difficult to talk about the manic periods. We have talked and said as a family which is worse? the manic where she is being irrational and doing things completely out of character and we don't know where she is, or the deep depression where nothing interests her and she stays at home in her dressing gown wanting to sleep and not caring for herself. selfish i know, its the highs. we know where she is but it is heartbreaking to see this beautiful young girl who should be out with her friends enjoying life.
sue v
jeanb
#13 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 4:43:00 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 3,006
Location: Timperley
Oh Sue, I do understand how devastating this must be for your family, and am not trying to belittle in anyway mental illness. My Steve suffers from clinical depression so I know a little bit about it. And Diane is right, this is an emotive issue. Of course this man should not have been executed - it's barbaric. On the other side of the coin, I think with sadness of the awful anguish a friend of ours on the forum had to endure when her son was sucked into drugs whilst depressed and tried to commit suicide when on a "high". I don't think there are any answers but surely there has to be some sort of deterrent?
RCampbell
#14 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:29:26 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 43
Location: Burgess Hill, West Sussex
Jean & Doreen,

You are quite right. Someone who commits an illegal act has to be judged and sentenced to a deterrent punishment. This guy didn't rea;;y understand what he was doing. I believe he tried to run his own defence. The reason he was in China was because he was convinced he would become a mega pop-star (a delusion caused by his bipolar). He was preyed upon by people who used him. He wasn't even told that he was to be executed! That was left to his family to explain to him 12 hours before the deed. As for knowing about China's Human Rights record and its laws and punishments, he was so manic, he couldn't understand what they meant. By all means, judge him, find him guilty but to show some mercy, he could have been sentenced to a very long term in jail then be deported. At least, the Chinese law would seem to have been fair and proportionate.
Bob

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
dorat
#15 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:53:59 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 3,157
Location: Huddersfield
I didn't say I agreed with it Bob, I feel sorry for him and his family, but that's the law in China.

Doreen xx
Anthea1948
#16 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:37:11 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 327
Bob, you have my full support on this; our government is, as you point out, two-faced and is totally inconsistent in its dealings with other countries. Thank you for raising this and for providing the link.

Anthea x
Jayne G
#17 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:13:50 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/5/2009
Posts: 48
Hi,

I agree with the fact that a mentally ill person should not have been executed and how difficult would it have been for China to let independant experts examine him. After all he was there for a couple of years. With regards to the guy who hacked into the Pentagon I think the Americans should be employing him to try and hack into their systems to see where the weaknesses are. If he can get in so could any terrorist. I used to work in the IT industry and would like to bet that some of the people I worked with could get in too if they wanted to do that sort of thing. The Daily Mail have got a petition going and have taken up his case if you want to sign a petition about it.
We live in a very unfair world.

Happy New Year to you all

Jayne
RCampbell
#18 Posted : Saturday, January 02, 2010 10:54:50 AM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 43
Location: Burgess Hill, West Sussex
Dear All,

It was fascinating to read (for the first time today) George Osborne's article about our Foreign Secretary's stance re the Chinese event and the spineless attitude he adopts over extradition to America.
Bob

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
jeanb
#19 Posted : Saturday, January 02, 2010 11:10:59 AM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 3,006
Location: Timperley
Sadly, Bob, they re all spineless morons.
Users browsing this topic
New Topic Post Reply
Forum Jump  
You can post new topics in this forum.
You can reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You can edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

SoClean Theme By Jaben Cargman (Tiny Gecko)
Powered by YAF 1.9.3 | YAF © 2003-2009, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.218 seconds.